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Star Trek 4 (14)


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#201 Gothneo

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 11:19 PM

No doubt Beyond didn't do as well as they wanted... I realize that the way they do the money on movies is complicated... so you may well be right... but strictly by the numbers... its reported that the production cost for Beyond was 185MM, and the total sales, incl dvd and home sale is currently ~375MM.

 

So if the rule (and I'm just throwing out a random number I think some folks have quoted before) is that a movie has to do 3x its production cost to make money... then actually its closer to a 100MM loss as it would have need to make 475MM. 

 

thing is by that rule... Into darkness falls short too... and it was regarded as a money maker.  So I got to believe that somewhere with these big budget productions certain costs become closer to fixed. I also have to believe that if a movie is marginally profitable... they may cook the books to show a loss because it just works out better.. e.g. take the early deprecation and then pay out if it makes money in the home market or whatever as those may be different deals. 

 

All that being said... compared to say any of the avengers movies, who's production budgets were >300MM... and those easily raked in > 1MMM ea??!!! yeah those were obvious money makers, and just using the basic 3x Production cost rule means a Trek movie hasn't been a real money maker since 1st Contact all the way back to1996. which suggests that they have to be making something off some of these... otherwise they been sinking bad money into the franchise for over 1/2 its films and more than 20 years!

 

Anyhow... I think they are right back where they were with STTMP... which is to say they need to figure out how to keep the budget cheaper... and one way to do that is to get away from all the high speed flashy scenes that are the hallmark of an action movie (because in this case it means more CGI). 

 

One of the best received movies has been the voyage home... and most of that had the cast running about modern day San Fran... TWOK was done with a budget 1/3 that of STTMP.

 

So regardless of the if they decide to reboot the Movie Trek universe again... the analogous budget cut would imply that a Trek movie should be made for ~65MM, which , as Deadpool proved its totally possible make a great action flick in that range... and make tons of money, because sometimes less is more.

 

So I'm not disagreeing that they need to either reboot again or go a different direction... but even if they do I think the production budget for Trek just doesn't warrant a huge 100MM > number because clearly the fan demand (worldwide) just isn't there for the franchise... at least not like there is for the Marvel U currently. 



#202 MisterPL

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 11:59 AM

With this cast and the whole alternate timeline thing -- I think they've taken it about as far as this whole premise can go.

 

I just wish they'd done the alternate timeline on television instead of a big-budget movie.

 

They came up with a brilliant way to recast Trek's most popular characters in their prime (no pun intended) but have hamstrung themselves by limiting it to feature films. Star Trek would have made a terrific pilot to a completely rebooted series, one that could still take advantage of the Shatners and Stewarts fans adore but move forward with a unified show.



#203 MisterPL

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 12:15 PM

One of the best received movies has been the voyage home... and most of that had the cast running about modern day San Fran... TWOK was done with a budget 1/3 that of STTMP.

 

Much of the development on TWOK (ship design, sets, even footage) was recycled from TMP. And TVH was popular because it was self-aware, almost a parody of itself. The fact that most of it was filmed on location instead of on sets that had to be designed and manufactured just made it more profitable.

 

 

So regardless of the if they decide to reboot the Movie Trek universe again... the analogous budget cut would imply that a Trek movie should be made for ~65MM, which , as Deadpool proved its totally possible make a great action flick in that range... and make tons of money, because sometimes less is more.

 

 

The difference is that people going to see Deadpool are going to see Deadpool. Star Trek isn't "The Adventures of Captain Kirk." It's become an ensemble and that ensemble isn't cheap.

 

One could argue that a Tarantino film could focus exclusively on Spock and McCoy and it'd be a damned entertaining film. Then the concern is fracturing the franchise even further. It's already divided by TV series (TOS vs TNG  vs DS9...) and by timeline (Prime vs. Kelvin). I wouldn't want to see it broken by characters.

 

This is why I'm generally happy with what CBS All Access is doing. They've brought Trek back to the smaller screen but with a big screen look. They're offering vignettes that focus on supporting characters, small productions that could attract the industry's best writers and directors. They're willing to give things like an animated series a try.

 

There was a time when one could argue that a story like TMP needed a budget only a feature film could deliver.

 

That time is past.



#204 Gothneo

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 04:43 PM

Again, I agree totally about the cost of an ensemble cast... especially when the cast are all high priced actors in their own right... an issue they didn't necessarily have with TOS or even TNG Trek. When I say they need to figure out how to do it for less... maybe they need to use fewer a-list actors or as you suggest do a film focused on 2 or 3 main characters.... again... I agree that might be damn entertaining. I also agree that Trek doesn't need feature film budget levels to looks great and tell a coherent story... DISCO looks fantastic... I enjoyed it, but it has clear story issues... and since I'm still an AA Subber... I'm willing to see what they do with S2.



#205 Morgan

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 07:14 PM

"Beyond" was particularly expensive too with all those sets and CGI, perhaps more expensive than it needed to be. And just like the other two, it looked like a live-action filmed version of comic book storyboards -- something that has become almost a requirement in the space sci-fi and fantasy genre -- more so than something like "Rogue One."

 

Yeah, there's no reason it needed to top 100 million: Just look at what Nick Meyer was able to accomplish with the two films he helmed. The Undiscovered Country, even with some of its set requirements, was like $45 mil to make. Adjusted for inflation, that's still not a whole lot.

 

"The Voyage Home," it was noted in the commentary track, was the Trek film that reached the widest audience, which is very believable in retrospect. So much so that no one even noticed that the bridge of the HMS Bounty was totally different than in Search for Spock, hahah.



#206 Gothneo

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 04:55 AM

I really like the Undiscovered Country to this day. Even though it was speaking to the uncertainty of the end of the cold war... it still seems apropos to me to this day... and Plummers performance was fantastic. 

 

I read an interview of Ryan Reynolds, who said that studio really had very little confidence in Deadpool as a project... to the point that action scenes  had to be cut short because they didn't have the budget for lengthy drawn out CGI scenes.  and IMO the film was better for it as often such scenes do little or nothing to actually advance the story. I think Beyond would have benefitted greatly from a tighter leash in a similar way as the basic premise of Beyond isn't that bad... it just seemed to wander off track continuously and as mentioned, the action scenes seemed... "Gratuitous"? 



#207 MisterPL

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 03:30 PM

This will be welcome news to most:

 

http://sciencefictio...-youre-talking/



#208 Gothneo

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:45 PM

Whaaaa! now I'm outraged that the thing I was outraged about is no longer a thing I can outraged about!!!






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