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Star Trek: Discovery. Series talk and discussion


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#801 Whirlygig

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Posted 20 February 2019 - 06:54 AM

I think he meant the writers' room needs its star, not the show.

So here's something I was thinking about...if it turns out the Kelpiens don't need their ganglia to live then what does that say about the mirror universe idea of eating them? One could claim the Terran Empire would be evil enough to kill them for their ganglia regardless. But that seems dumb ... why not eat the ganglia and keep them as slave labor beyond that? It was clearly implied a Kelpien died to bring Burnham her forkful. Just another example of derpitude from writers who DGAF (don't give a flip).

#802 Whirlygig

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Posted 20 February 2019 - 07:09 AM

I was just looking at an article which showed a still of the red angel that was added to the title sequence for season 2.

It looks to me like a man flanked on each side by a mirror image of a JJ-prise-ish Starfleet vessel with the nacelles forming the pointy parts of the wing tips. One red and one blue.

Could it be symbolism for something not angelic at all? Red angel ... red matter? Two spocks in conflict? Mirror enterprises? Evil spock? He does after all have the facial hair in the promo shots. Future spock or alternate reality spock sending himself messages all these years... dunno. Just wanted to get that out there in case it wins me told-ya-so rights later. :)

#803 VulcanFanatic

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Posted 20 February 2019 - 08:21 AM

I just wish we could get a Star Trek series that felt and looked like a Star Trek series again. Maybe Picard will be that but since he is supposedly out of Star Fleet now, I don't know.

#804 Gothneo

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Posted 20 February 2019 - 11:49 AM

Whirligig, gotcha .. I guess they need a star in for the and behind the camera then! Also yeah... the whole kelpian thing is another great example that they really didnt sketch out a decent playbook... which I get that they need some flexibility.... look how they changed the Frengi over the years... but they did that rather quickly and without much backtracking.

VF, I dont mind if they try something different... play it forward (in time) so you dont have to mess with all the canon.. or paint yourself in a corner. For gosh sake make it interesting and something you can invest in... pike is a glimmer of a starfleet charter I can get behind... but they dont show case him that much ... so disco still isnt there for me.

#805 Whirlygig

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Posted 20 February 2019 - 05:06 PM

To expand on my hair-brained theory....

 

Evil Spock has been masquerading as real Spock for several years.  Real Spock is trapped in the mirror universe trying to send a message across dimensions and time to let someone know, which manifests as these signals/angels.  This could explain why Spock, who is really Evil Spock, has been going ballistic.  He started seeing the visions and doesn't want to be found out.  It also could explain why he and Burnham had a falling out, maybe it was actually with Evil Spock.  Maybe Spock has been Evil Spock since childhood!  Who knows.  It could explain lots of other things...  Why didn't Spock ever tell anybody about his brother...well, maybe he was trapped in the mirror universe all those years and even he didn't know he had one until after he comes back?  Maybe this could justify the entirety of the Mirror Georgiou shenanigans.  Maybe she knows something about it or about how to bring him back.

 

What do you think?  Am I reaching too far here???

 

The one thing it wouldn't explain is why he doesn't mention knowing about the Mirror Universe or his evil doppelganger in Mirror, Mirror....unless of course there was some kind of vow of secrecy around the circumstances of his return.



#806 Whirlygig

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Posted 20 February 2019 - 07:22 PM

...And look what just appeared in my Google news feed:

https://screenrant.c...-future-theory/

 

I like my Evil Spock idea better than JJ Spock but I guess I and whomever this article is copping off of think alike.  :P



#807 Gothneo

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 06:23 AM

So I thinking about what I actually enjoyed about Star Trek in previous incarnations. 

 

TOS often took classic western mythos and distilled mysticism to more scientific and rational means. It also used, at some times almost silly or absurd, tropes to reveal the absurdity of things like prejudice or racism, in otherworld it promoted Humanism and thats largely because Roddenberry was a Humanist. TNG was more of the same, though I'd suggest that the tropes were less obvious, absurd or silly. DS9, I think, pushed the Humanist centric values of Star Trek right to the edge by incorporating the Religious aspects of the Profits, and the idea that Cisco was "The Emissary"... and largely the entire war with the dominion could reviewed as a war against Roddenberrys Humanism... the Founders were seen as gods and followed blindly by their followers, etc etc... and though, I thought it pushed the Trek Value system to boundary.. its redeemed that they always came back to doing the good thing, the just thing, the right thing... 

 

Now fast forward to DISCO... this seems to be show more predicated on an aspect of relativism... meaning if the outcome is overall good for our "heroes", the the means justifies the ends, any crimes, imagined or otherwise, are forgiven. So the manner in which the war with the Klingons ends doesn't matter... resorting to destroying the homeward of the Klingons... or placing a "puppet" Klingon government... these concepts aren't inline with the basic  tenants of humanism... and lets be fair... Trek has planted the seeds of some of these concepts all the way back in some TOS episodes, heck like I said previously the TNG episode "The Pegasus" could basically be a primer for much of what we have in DISCO... Officers performing illegal acts... covering it up... lying... experiments gone awry... if they had just thought to tie a bow on it by saying it was a section 31 mission, detractors would be stopped cold. Typically though these episodes were the exception and there was a price paid... not so it seems for many members of Discovery. 

 

So I guess where I'm going with this, is if it turns out that future Spock is messing with past Spock... if this is the big plot line and thread for the entirety of DISCO... well that'll be a huge letdown... to me what they've done is try and wrap mysticism in more scientific trappings... and move core concepts of Humanism such as free will or the state where the individual can determine their fate back to one of chaos, randomness and a "god wills it" order. Its what I call the Terminator syndrome... the time traveling paradox where you think you can change the future... but it turns out you can't... its predestined... and this is great fun... and I enjoy that type of thing... when I'm watching a Terminator movie... but thats not what I originally enjoyed about Star Trek.



#808 Whirlygig

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 07:48 AM

There's no doubt about it, Trek ain't what it used to be nor what I loved it for in the first place.

In that New Eden episode, the "good guy" on the planet seemed to be the science guy so at least there's that.

Back to my Evil Spock theory for a minute...good Spock could be sitting in the mirror universe somewhere, aware of planet devastating natural disasters and such like the one on New Eden...and while he is forced to live among Terrans who don't care about such things he has figured out a way to lure the prime universe characters to those places knowing they will help where his universe failed.

Don't worry though...I'm probably way off...

I thought LOST was going to turn out to be that they were the ones who brought themselves to the island for a greater purpose only their future selves understood. Wrong!

I did think BSG would turn out that they were our ancestors so I didn't completely miss that mark...

#809 Gothneo

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 09:53 AM

Oh... you seem to have some good insights... so you may not be completely off. I never got into Lost... and The whole premise of BSG was supposed to go there... though the end of S3 and through S4 they seemed to wander a bit and the fans knew it so they smartly decide to put a bow on it and call it done.

#810 Gothneo

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 08:51 PM

Whirlygig... I think your time traveling Spock theory has merit...  how about this...
 

Theorizing that one could time travel within his own lifetime, Spock led an elite team to develop a top secret project, known as "Red Angle." But... Spock prematurely activated the Red Matter Accelerator--and vanished.

 

He awoke to find himself in the past, suffering from partial amnesia and facing a mirror image that was not his own... rather in the form of a reddish hologram. Trapped in the past, Spock finds himself leaping from planet to planet, putting things right that once went wrong and hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home.



#811 VulcanFanatic

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Posted 22 February 2019 - 03:17 AM

Whirlygig... I think your time traveling Spock theory has merit...  how about this...
 


Sounds like someone has been watching Quantum leap.

#812 Gothneo

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Posted 22 February 2019 - 04:38 AM

Oh no... I based that on the last episode of DISCO!

 

 

Wait... has *that* been done before??!! (/sarc)



#813 MisterPL

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 11:33 AM

Guess what just got renewed for a third season.

 

https://variety.com/...ner-1203150809/



#814 Alteran195

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 12:07 PM

Guess what just got renewed for a third season.
 
https://variety.com/...ner-1203150809/


But the idiotic YouTube channels said itd be cancelled for sure? How could their inside sources claiming Discovery was a failure keep being wrong?

#815 MisterPL

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 12:13 PM

TOS was also a failure and limped into its third season. I'm sure that's how they'll spin it.  B)

 

Either way, if fans get a Picard series or a Section 31 show or a cartoon or two they like, they can thank Discovery. Star Trek belongs on TV.



#816 Alteran195

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 12:24 PM

I think that even if the show ends naturally, their inside sources will claim it was actually cancelled.

#817 MisterPL

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 01:30 PM

It's not mandatory to like the show but, mother of God, the incessant bile from "fans" is ridiculous.

 

I don't recall everyone hopping on their CB radios in 1978 to talk crap about how a Star Trek movie was just a cash grab from greedy Paramount and that it should be free. No one whined that it looked too different or that the Klingons weren't real Klingons and that the whole thing was non-canonical because they were suddenly wearing pajamas.

 

We were happy to have live-action Trek back! Sure, we had criticisms but it had nothing to do with "introducing an Indian chick to promote the liberal SJW agenda of inclusion." No one looked at Nimoy's first scene and said, "Oh, great. It's hippy Spock."

 

Like I said; I'm just glad to see Trek back on TV. I'd be even happier if it was MY Trek (IE – the voyages of the starship Enterprise) but this renewal gives me hope that we'll get back to that eventually.



#818 VulcanFanatic

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 04:12 PM

I was a teenager in the 1970's when talk of another Star Trek series was in the air, and I remember people not being happy that Nimoy was not going to be in the series,then their was talk of a bald headed woman replacing Spock on a series, which I wasn't happy about,then there was a movie planned and the series was scrapped. I was happy to hear that Nimoy was going to return. I also remember going to see STTMP on opening weekend in 1979, and wondering why they felt the need to change the popular TOS uniforms to the ugly pajamas they were now wearing. I wasn't happy that the storyline they had for Spock seemed to make him into an asshole, and who was this Decker dude? I wondered why they had to change the Enterprise look. I wasn't that happy with the changes they made , but I was happy to have Star Trek back, but I still didn't like the changes they made.

#819 Gothneo

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 09:12 PM

It's not mandatory to like the show but, mother of God, the incessant bile from "fans" is ridiculous.

 

 

The most vitriol of which seems to come from those not even watching it. 

 

I'm critical of it. It hasn't met my expectations for Trek... and I think its... ok Sci-fi... it borders on sci-fantasy to me... and the writing and pacing of the aren't great IMO. 

 

Bottom line is its renewal doesn't excite me and won't be an incentive to maintain my AA membership... maybe some of the other shows will... but I've given DISCO more than its fair shake, and they just don't seem to be able to pull it together. 



#820 Whirlygig

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 10:17 AM

I don't recall everyone hopping on their CB radios in 1978 to talk crap about how a Star Trek movie was just a cash grab from greedy Paramount and that it should be free. No one whined that it looked too different or that the Klingons weren't real Klingons and that the whole thing was non-canonical because they were suddenly wearing pajamas.

 

Well to be fair that was the dawn of the blockbuster, cash grab, franchise, tent pole era.  Back then it was new and exciting to see the things you loved on the big screen.  Now we are all jaded after seeing ourselves abused time and time again.






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