269 replies to this topic

[MisterPL]

It'll be interesting to see what happens if or when CBS and Paramount become one company again because I think a lot of this disjointed merchandising for Star Trek is as a result of the split between the two studios. 

 

That's exactly what it's been.

 

When they decided to reboot Star Trek, Abrams insisted that the only merchandise made available was to be that based on his film. He reasoned that the other stuff was a distraction and wouldn't help promote this new franchise he was helping them build. But that would have meant the revenue stream going to the television division would be severed entirely while the film division could reply on profits from the new flick. 

 

Consequently we got different Treks competing for the same market.

 

If they become one entity, they'll be able to focus more like they did in the 90s. "Synergy."

[Alex]

I really think there's way more doomsaying in this thread than their should be. DST is a fine licensee and there's plenty more products both ships and otherwise that they could produce for the market that they cater too. We know they have a bit of a protracted development schedule, and we're at the point we are every few years where the forum starts to whine that the latest ship isn't ready yet; the good news is that relatively soon we'll all be drooling over the latest ship and begging for more. Voyager, the Defiant, and the Enterprise–C are all high up on my Federation ship list, and there are loads of alien designs to work with too, so I'm still in favor of DST controlling the toy license. Heck, we just started to get TNG Phaser announcements not too long ago, and I'm sure we'll be seeing more of those if they sell the way the TOS Phasers did. I'm still crossing my fingers for 24th century tricorders too.

 

As for the "disjointed merchandising," it's absolutely and entirely the result of "Old" Viacom splitting itself into two separate entities. (And needlessly so given that it was done to keep Les Moonves and Tom Freston from killing each other, and Freston left shortly after the split.) The problem was that every license had to be renegotiated for new products, and some licensees might have been preferred over others depending on who was in charge at which company. Abrams idea of trying to ignore the Prime Universe was never going to fly, and he lost the chance at a Trek TV series when he made it a conditoin of producing said series for CBS, but originally the idea was to have that "corporate synergy" of '90s Trek, and to have new material on big and small screens. When Abrams took his ball (err... red matter) and went home though, that went out the window and left Viacom/Paramount marketing to a different audience than CBS, and only further fractured the license with Paramount licensing on a per–movie basis and CBS licensing (at least at the time,) on a basis of the entirety of the Prime Universe, supposedly "with the option to extend to new material," although that might have changed.

 

As far as the "reunification" of CBS and Paramount goes, I know this is probably better suited for a separate thread, but I wouldn't count on it happening anytime soon. Paramount appears to have garnered some foreign investments from China, and CBS doesn't appear to interested in scooping them up. A few months ago I would have been far more optimistic about such a possibility though given that CBS doesn't have a movie studio and Paramount doesn't have a TV presence, making such a merger seem like a no–brainer. Of course, with Viacom in perpetual chaos, it's entirely possible that CBS doesn't want in on the drama they've gotten a free pass out of, and some of Viacom's board members are the ones opposing such a seemingly obvious solution to the problems plaguing Paramount. I wouldn't say it's impossible, but for the time being, it's increasingly implausible.

[Jay K]

Will post this here, as I don't think it deserves its own thread.

Latest Ask DST (Ghostbusters and Star Trek):

Arthur L.
The D7 is an icon and should be on your drawing boards for release. The original that Gene Roddenberry kept on his desk still sits tucked at Smithsonian as the very first alien ship that was seen on screen even before the Romulan BOP. Please consider releasing the Klingon D7 Battlecruiser. I as a Star Trek fan and a thousand others like me can guarantee this will most certainly be one of your most sought after items.

DSTChuck: Sorry, but I do not think that is something that is on the list of ships we’re looking at.

 

 

So the Romulan Bird of Prey has been made...but the one that's popular with much more people (if not for the fact that it could easily lead to a K't'inga class as well), is not even on the list.

 

They also said they'd love to work with CBS on Discovery stuff, but I thought this one was eye-opening enough to post here.

[1701D]

Hmmm suggests to me that they're not automatically the license holder for Discovery... I tell you, this line is dead. It's done. If they don't get Discovery, it's over for DST's Trek line.

[Stormfury_Echo]

If that's the case, someone else will pick it up.

[Alteran195]

That is incredibly stupid.

I could understand the logic of putting out the RBoP, but to say the D7 isn't even on the list is idiotic. What other alien ships are there that could possibly be more popular?

They said the TNG Warbird is out of the question.

Dominion ships would be cool, but I don't think they'd sell better than a D7.

Same goes for Borg and Cardassian ships.

I don't think the line is dead, even without Discovery I think it's fine. I just think that it's idiotic to not even have the D7 on the list.

[Jay K]

Without full-on panic mode being enabled just yet, can anyone else think of another alien ship they'd make before a D7/K't'inga, bearing in mind that we've been told with 99% certainty on multiple occasions that they basically won't even consider a Romulan Warbird? The only one that I feel has a realistic chance would be the Vor'cha class (TNG is the second most popular show after TOS) - but to make that over a K't'inga/D7, a ship that covers all eras and has so many (good) variants?

I'm thinking the R-BoP might be DST's last alien ship.

 

EDIT: Forgot about the Borg, and DST do love the Borg...

A Cube with real depth to it, and good lighting, might interest me - but it'd have to be a real knockout/jaw-dropper.

[djc242]

Wow. May the Prophets forgive them.

I'd love me a K't'inga with David Warner dialog!

[1701D]

I just don't understand the mentality in anything that goes on at Star Trek merchandising HQ.

I had a great chat with the manager at the London forbidden planet and he was amazed that over the 50th there was hardly anything Star Trek. They were expecting a huge year for Trek, something that resembled the Doctor Who 50th celebrations but nothing happened. He had heard rumblings that legal matters between Paramount and CBS were the key to there being a lack of merchandise. Apparently Paramount are quite difficult to deal with?

Regardless of that, I have always found it so strange that the JJ Abrams movies lacked so much in the way of merchandise. From toys to books and clothing and a license holder for over 10 years now, who have proven their product sells, was never given anything?

Something seems to have gone wrong with whoever or whatever it is that decides who gets a licence and who doesn't.

All I can say is Star Trek merchandise is horrifically hard to find in the U.K. and that for Discovery they really need to sort it out. It's a damn mess.

[Nigel]

They're shooting themselves in the foot by not doing the D-7 battlecruiser. And yeah, they almost totally missed out on the opportunity that the 50th anniversary presented.

[Alex]

Hmm...

 

DST stating they'd like to work with DSC could be an indicator that they have the licesne but are under an NDA and can't say that they have it yet, or it could be an indicator that they're merely trying to secure it. I would be surprised if it's not offered to them simply given who DSC is being aimed at and that there's already a built–in fanbase for DST's toys.

 

Then again, it's possible that DSC won't see a toyline until its third season and that CBS isn't actively trying to push anything just yet since pushing a toyline is how ENT and NEM wound up warming pegs. Throw in the fact that Playmates produced a toyline that didn't go anywhere in '09 and the toy line for STID was a flop, and I could see CBS wanting to see DSC's performance before comitting to a licensee for the toys. Besides, there are benefits to waiting for a TV show toyline, such as electronic ships that feel fully representative of the show and not just the first half of the first season, popular characters potentially getting priority as figures, as opposed to characters that would presumably be popular but aren't, as well as the potential for variants based on scenes fans latch onto. I could see DST being able to release a U.S.S. Discovery with a couple of variants around season three much more easily than just releasing a U.S.S. Discovery at the start of season one.  VGR didn't see its ship until it had been on the air for a few seasons, and VGR figures didn't show up until season two if memory serves me correctly. There was also a gap between an earlier TNG toyline that few remember and the ever–popular Playmates line of the '90s which benefitted largely from knowing what aspects of TNG to incorporate into said toyline instead of "firing blindly" as it were. I think that's worth considering.

 

As for the D7 not being in the drawing board, it honestly doesn't bother me, at least not right now. We still need the Enterprise–C to finish off the "ships named Enterprise," we still need the Defiant, and we still need Voyager, and if DST gets DSC, we'll need "The Discovery" as well, and that's just Federation ships. We know the Reliant is in the works, and that presumably there are other Federation ships being considered to follow it.

As for alien ships, we have one from TOS, one from the TOS movies, and none from TNG–VGR or ENT. Keeping in mind DST's opposition to the D'deridex–class warbird, I would think we could still see a Valdore–class Warbird, (appeared in NEM, goes well with the ever–in–demand Enterprise–E from DST,) a Borg ship of some sort, (I believe Chuck or Zach have said that they're continuing to look into how to do this without just having it be a boring block of plastic while staying on budget,) TNG–era BoP variants, which I realize aren't new, but are still TNG–era, a Jem'hadar attack a ship which seems to be a bit of a fan favorite as well, a Ferengi Marauder which seems relatively simple and possibly complimentary to a U.S.S. Stargazer which is something that could potentially be tooled largely using existing tooling from the upcoming U.S.S. Reliant, (the Enginers and saucer between the Miranda and Constellation–class are nearly identical, it's just pylons that would supposedly need new tooling,) and even an ENT–era BoP depending on how much could be harvested from the current BoP. *Takes deep breath* Yes, the D7/K'tinga seems like something DST needs to get too eventually, but I'd rather we get some non–TOS stuff before returning to the "all–TOS all the time" mentality. Yes, I want a K'tinga too, but there are other ships I'm much more interested in, both Federation and "alien" at that. Maybe the K'tinga is on the drawing board and that's why the D7 isn't, or maybe we whined loudly enough that DST is trying to find a way to make that pesky D'deridex–class affordable enough for them to produce it. Let's not treat this like the end of the universe just yet, I don't think DST's line is finished by any means, I think it's merely moving at the pace it has been moving at for ages now.

[JMW326]

They're shooting themselves in the foot by not doing the D-7 battlecruiser. And yeah, they almost totally missed out on the opportunity that the 50th anniversary presented.

They shoot themslves in the foot with just about everything Trek related anymore. It's clear that the person in charge of that part of the company has no idea what they are doing. It's sad really.

[1701D]

They shoot themslves in the foot with just about everything Trek related anymore. It's clear that the person in charge of that part of the company has no idea what they are doing. It's sad really.

Far be it for me to defend DST. I think they've been pretty lacklustre at getting product out to fans on a regular basis to keep interest there.

That being said... it's not just DST struggling to really make their mark on Star Trek and the fault doesn't come from these companies trying, it comes from the awful management at CBS and Paramount making really bad decisions on how to develop the brand.

Hand on heart, CBS should of chewed Abrams arm off when he came to them with the proposal to turn Star Trek into a multi-platformed franchise with video games, films, TV series, animated TV series and toys.

Yes in the first instance the emphasis would of been on developing the Kelvin Universe and developing product based upon the Abrams movies but that isn't unusual. When TNG became a hit and Playmates got the license, TNG was the only Star Trek series to be marketed and merchandised until that line cemented itself. What would have probably happened is that clearly the power of the original series and TNG would of begun to be intertwined with what Abrams had developed and by the 50th, there would of likely been a big push on TOS branded merchandise.

But that never happened and I think to the detriment of an extensive merchandise range for Star Trek.

With Discovery they have to do something and my feeling is that they should potentially find a way of bringing the Kelvin Timeline into the fold and marrying Prime and Kelvin together.

DST not doing the D7... i'd imagine they're probably gearing up to bring us more of the hero ships like Defiant and Voyager if the line continues beyond the Reliant.

I'd like to see DST take on Discovery and the Kelvin Timeline but I'd like to see a return to the traditional action figures with articulation and digital 3D scanning technology used on the actors to create them. Just like Art Asylum did with Enterprise. Same with the ships and props.

Its time to give the longest running Star Trek toy line the license to do current Star Trek.

[JMW326]

While agree about CBS and paramount being a big part of the problem with getting product out for Star Trek, DST already has a license that covers figures, props, and ships from all of the original shows and they can't seem to get anything worthwhile out in a manner that shows any real care for the franchise. Look at the select line. Since it started we have gotten five figures/statues. These figures barely have any articulation and the sculpts and poses are highly questionable on most of them. In that time The Gotham Select line has had at least eight that I can remember all with great articulation and much higher quality sculpts. Some even have diorama display pieces. The Ghostbusters Select one has had at least eight or nine figures as well with exclusives. Again with much better sculpts and articulation. However, they are all the same price. I thought less articulation meant cheaper to produce (at least that's what DST has said in the past). Ships and props take years for a single release. They have been blaming factories for problems for years, but changing them never seems to fix anything. That of course is when they choose to admit that there was even a problem. I remember them sidestepping the problem with the TNG Data, Barclay and TMP Kirk and Spock wonky leg thing every time it was asked. They have proven time and again that Star Trek has become nothing more than a second thought with no real urgency in getting anything out. The Q&A is a joke and for a long time seemed to be nothing but a forum for them to taunt and toy with fans. Whomever is in charge of the Star Trek license part of DST has clearly dropped the ball or has way two much on their plate to handle it correctly.

[Nigel]

JMW you basically just said a lot of things I've wanted to say about DST for a long time but didn't want to "offend" the admins.

[Razorgeist]

While Im dissapointed Im honestly not suprised.  

 

 

As for the D7 not being in the drawing board, it honestly doesn't bother me, at least not right now. We still need the Enterprise–C to finish off the "ships named Enterprise," we still need the Defiant, and we still need Voyager

 

I was thing that they may want to do Voyager and the Borg cube together.

[1701D]

While agree about CBS and paramount being a big part of the problem with getting product out for Star Trek, DST already has a license that covers figures, props, and ships from all of the original shows and they can't seem to get anything worthwhile out in a manner that shows any real care for the franchise. Look at the select line. Since it started we have gotten five figures/statues. These figures barely have any articulation and the sculpts and poses are highly questionable on most of them. In that time The Gotham Select line has had at least eight that I can remember all with great articulation and much higher quality sculpts. Some even have diorama display pieces. The Ghostbusters Select one has had at least eight or nine figures as well with exclusives. Again with much better sculpts and articulation. However, they are all the same price. I thought less articulation meant cheaper to produce (at least that's what DST has said in the past). Ships and props take years for a single release. They have been blaming factories for problems for years, but changing them never seems to fix anything. That of course is when they choose to admit that there was even a problem. I remember them sidestepping the problem with the TNG Data, Barclay and TMP Kirk and Spock wonky leg thing every time it was asked. They have proven time and again that Star Trek has become nothing more than a second thought with no real urgency in getting anything out. The Q&A is a joke and for a long time seemed to be nothing but a forum for them to taunt and toy with fans. Whomever is in charge of the Star Trek license part of DST has clearly dropped the ball or has way two much on their plate to handle it correctly.

Yeah but let's be honest, Gotham is a current TV show on TV at the moment. Of course DST are going to be doing more for a show actually on TV that is still being made.

The most current TV show DST has a licence for in terms of Star Trek is 16 years old this year. TNG is 30 this year and whilst I'm sure a few product here and there would sell, an entire line of action figures for a show 30 years old, just wouldn't.

I know all of us here love classic Trek and TNG and would lap up decent Star Trek merchandise but these aren't current shows anymore, and as such, don't command as much relevance among those who would collect Star Trek merchandise.

[Nigel]

The fact that TOS has been re-released so many times on DVD and blu-ray and remastered says something about its popularity and marketability. DS9 and Voyager still have yet to be released on blu-ray and they are much more recent.

[Whirlygig]

Yeah but let's be honest, Gotham is a current TV show on TV at the moment. Of course DST are going to be doing more for a show actually on TV that is still being made.

The most current TV show DST has a licence for in terms of Star Trek is 16 years old this year. TNG is 30 this year and whilst I'm sure a few product here and there would sell, an entire line of action figures for a show 30 years old, just wouldn't.

I know all of us here love classic Trek and TNG and would lap up decent Star Trek merchandise but these aren't current shows anymore, and as such, don't command as much relevance among those who would collect Star Trek merchandise.

 

That sounds like a potentially valid excuse for not releasing as much product.  But it does nothing to address everything else about what JMW326 said.

[1701D]

The fact that TOS has been re-released so many times on DVD and blu-ray and remastered says something about its popularity and marketability. DS9 and Voyager still have yet to be released on blu-ray and they are much more recent.

Yes but comparing the actual series with a toy line just isn't relative. We're talking about TV shows with already extensive toy lines behind them. Playmates did a huge number of toys based on Star Trek. And even DST and Art Asylum have done a huge number of toys so... I mean with no way on doing toys based upon the Abrams movies and no word if they're going to be doing toys based upon Discovery, it does limit them on what they can do that they know will sell.

It's the same with other licences. You don't see any Stargate toys because there's no new Stargate to keep people interested in that brand. There's very few Terminator figures coming from NECA because there's no new Terminator movies coming out, Babylon 5... no figures for that show, Battlestar Galactica... nope nothing because there's nothing new coming out from the studio's.

We're lucky we get what we do from the companies that have the rights but even then it's because we're talking about Star Trek. Even then though, lines never seem to last more than a year and never seem to do well enough to continue them on for any length of time. Playmates 2009 line lasted a year, Hasbro's Kreo line lasted a year, nothing for Beyond, Mega Bloks Star Trek line seems to have lasted a year... Mezco's one:12 line... who knows!

It's this piece meal approach to licensing that has really hurt collectors wanting the definitive line of Star Trek product.

QMx, Eaglemoss and Diamond Select are the only three companies who have stuck the course. Now someone (Jon Van Citters) needs to allow DST the rights to develop not just Discovery product but Kelvin Timeline product too.

That way you keep the toy line fresh, relevant and popular with old and new fans.

DST's problems with getting product out on a regular basis though have to be resolved if they are to be given more opportunities to create items from the more current and relevant Star Trek's.