1901 replies to this topic

[1701D]

 
I didn't deserve any of that. I'm obviously just a "sweaty nerd" to you. I happened to like Enterprise. It has grown on me over the years. I don't give a shit about what colour a wall was or whatever crap you just spewed. I just don't want to see them completely change the show to suit some superhero lens flare eye candy transformers no acting talent no plot except blow up shit like the abrams films. One of the things I don't like about Discovery is the pic of the "new Klingons." I don't get how every show has to be filled with softcore porn and horror movie violence like Game of Thrones. Star Trek should be something you can watch with your family. I've had a bad feeling about you for a while. You seem to neglect anything I post. Can't say I'm surprised you took out your rage on me.

It really pisses me off that you and others here just can't seem to wait and just see what this series will be before judging it. On top of all of that, you're then insulting those of us who are actually just wanting GOOD Star Trek stories and that if it delivers on that then this will be a great STAR TREK series. Everything else is secondary and quite frankly they can mess around with canon as much as they like as it's theirs to mess around with, chuck it out the window for all I care.

I'm sorry but I think it's about time those of us who just enjoy good Star Trek take a stand against those "fans" who actually don't like much Star Trek at all, beyond a series or two and proclaim that CBS and Paramount have ruined Star Trek.

They haven't ruined a damn thing, not with Abrams and not with Discovery.

YOU might not like Enterprise, YOU might not like Star Trek (2009), Into Darkness or Beyond and YOU might not like the sound of Discovery but that's JUST YOU - don't you dare tell those of us who just enjoy watching GOOD Star Trek stories in whatever form they come in and tell us that none of it is real Star Trek or that somewhow it's all been ruined. I'm fed up with these sweaty nerds telling me they're fans but haven't actually liked Star Trek since TNG... you're not fans, you're trolls who can't let go and have to tell everyone else that Star Trek sucks.

Pathetic to name a few; Vulcan Fanatic, Whirlygig and yes you Nigel and probably a handful of others who continuously spread vitriol and nonsense about what real Star Trek was or somesuch crap about canon or continuity being some kind of gospel and now ruined by CBS/Paramount/Abrams.

[1701D]

And Nigel, don't let someone make you sad and angry who just cannot accept that people have different opinions on things. The problem with people who complain, that some fans dislike JJ-Trek or the direction, Discovery seems to be taking, is that they cannot and will not accept another opinion. And if you tell 1701D, for example, that you like ENT, he'll start whining about that, since he doesn't accept this other opinion. So much for JJ-haters (well, I don't hate it, I just couldn't stand the first movie or the second one for various reasons and have therefor given up on the Kelvin-timeline) not being openminded. Thing is, there are people like myself who consider themselves Trekkies and still don't feel the obligation to worship everything with the name Star Trek attached to it.
As for Discovery: I'm torn. I really like James Frain and Jason Isaacs, but what we've learned about the setting and look of the show so far makes me sceptical. I'll watch it (though I'd prefer another season of ENT as well), and if I don't like it, I'll stop watching it and perhaps I'll even come to this forum and let people know why I don't like it. Because that's what this forum is for, sharing your opinion with others, right? It would get boring, if we all had the same opinion on things... Oh, and if I do like Discovery, I'll come here and let people know that, too.

Different opinions are fine,if I don't agree with those opinions, I let people know, sometimes I'm a dick about that but I get annoyed at those who have ridiculous opinions based on nothing!

What I will say before giving your opinion is at least wait for the series to be released before judging it... and when you do judge it, don't just exclaim that this isn't real Star Trek - what does that even mean????

[Daysleeper]

I've never said it wasn't real Star Trek. Regarding the JJ-Trek movies I have said that this is not what I like about Star Trek and that I find them to be bad movies. I never said they weren't Star Trek. I probably said something along the lines of "not what I would like Star Trek to be like".

And I just said that I will watch Discovery and will have an opinion after I've seen it. I also said I'm concerned about some of the things we know so far, whereas others (like some casting choices) make me rather optimistic.

When I read about ENT before it had been released, that it was gonna be a prequel to TOS, I was sceptic. It turned out to become my favorite show after TOS. So saying that I'm concerned about Discovery at this point doesn't mean that I condemn the show before it is even released.

I've liked Star Trek beyond a series or two. I got into it with TNG, have watched every series and most films multiple times and enjoy most of it. I do have preferences, but I can enjoy a good VOY episode as much as a good episode from any other show. However, I didn't enjoy the JJ-Trek movies. But only because you like them doesn't mean every Trek fan HAS to like them too. Worse than "old school Trekkies" complaining about JJ-Trek are the Nu-Trekkies complaining about people who just don't like JJ-Trek. Hell, so many people are complaining about ST5. Do I care? No. Is it one of my favorite movies? Yes. Do I get my knickers in a twist because some fans constantly call it the worst Star Trek movie of all times? No!

Will I give Discovery a chance? Yes, of course. But I'd still rather have another season of ENT. Because I love that show. Who knows, perhaps Discovery will be awesome and will become my new favorite Trek. But at the moment, I'm concerned.

[Daysleeper]

And being a dick about other opinions is a problem. Once you start insulting people on a personal level, it is quite obvious that you cannot accept other opinions after all.

[Nigel]

It really pisses me off that you and others here just can't seem to wait and just see what this series will be before judging it. On top of all of that, you're then insulting those of us who are actually just wanting GOOD Star Trek stories and that if it delivers on that then this will be a great STAR TREK series. Everything else is secondary and quite frankly they can mess around with canon as much as they like as it's theirs to mess around with, chuck it out the window for all I care.

I'm sorry but I think it's about time those of us who just enjoy good Star Trek take a stand against those "fans" who actually don't like much Star Trek at all, beyond a series or two and proclaim that CBS and Paramount have ruined Star Trek.

They haven't ruined a damn thing, not with Abrams and not with Discovery.

YOU might not like Enterprise, YOU might not like Star Trek (2009), Into Darkness or Beyond and YOU might not like the sound of Discovery but that's JUST YOU - don't you dare tell those of us who just enjoy watching GOOD Star Trek stories in whatever form they come in and tell us that none of it is real Star Trek or that somewhow it's all been ruined. I'm fed up with these sweaty nerds telling me they're fans but haven't actually liked Star Trek since TNG... you're not fans, you're trolls who can't let go and have to tell everyone else that Star Trek sucks.

Pathetic to name a few; Vulcan Fanatic, Whirlygig and yes you Nigel and probably a handful of others who continuously spread vitriol and nonsense about what real Star Trek was or somesuch crap about canon or continuity being some kind of gospel and now ruined by CBS/Paramount/Abrams.

 

YOU are the troll. YOU are the one making personal attacks. All I said was I would've liked to have seen more seasons of Enterprise. I am not a "sweaty nerd" and my opinion is just as valid as yours. I am just as entitled to dislike the abrams films and what we've so far seen of Discovery as you are to hate Enterprise. I consider Enterprise "good Trek." It is subjective as to what constitutes "good Trek" because not everyone is going to agree. You really bring me down with your name calling and hatred. Thanks for your support, Daysleeper.

[Nigel]

 

You think GoT in space is a bad thing? A story told from multiple perspectives across different parts of the Trek universe would be fantastic. 

 

I don't think that is the particular aspect of Game of Thrones that WhirlyGig was referring to. GoT does have good aspects like the one you mentioned but it is also loaded with porn. 

[Nigel]

Different opinions are fine,if I don't agree with those opinions, I let people know, sometimes I'm a dick about that but I get annoyed at those who have ridiculous opinions based on nothing!

What I will say before giving your opinion is at least wait for the series to be released before judging it... and when you do judge it, don't just exclaim that this isn't real Star Trek - what does that even mean????

 

Clearly different opinions aren't "fine" with you. There is no excuse for "being a dick" you just turn everyone off from wanting to take you seriously and communicate with you. I have liked some of your posts before but it's going to take a while to forget this crap.

[Whirlygig]

You think GoT in space is a bad thing? A story told from multiple perspectives across different parts of the Trek universe would be fantastic. 

That's not the part of GoT I would object to being applied in Trek. It's the celebratory sexism and violence. We could have pages upon pages of discussion about the ill effects of the on-screen rape, prostitution, etc culture depicted in GoT being fetishized by modern society's crudest, most uninformed, self-centered masses...about whether or not > 50% (or however much is too much) of its viewership actually tunes in primarily for what you describe, or what I describe. But what we should be easily able to agree on is whether there's any reason to bring what I describe into Star Trek (which is what I heard alluded to in the video). I would hope you would say no as I do. Even if it were isolated to Klingons. The essence of Trek is not tuning in to celebrate and indulge in fantasies about the backwardness of Klingon (or some other species's) culture. It's to celebrate and imagine our triumph over it (and over technology).

And no it's not to say those ideas should/must be absent 100% from Trek. To argue that that is my argument would suggest the arguer has not yet fully groked the extent of it present in GoT and the myriad possible differences in approach to depiction.

As for 1701...back at his tantrums again. I didn't leave yet, sucker, I said "IF"!

[Alteran195]

Telling people to leave, or insulting them because their opinions are different from yours is a bit too far 1701. You need to stop. 

[MisterPL]

Remember Enterprise? CBS has already been down the road of having a failed Star Trek series...

 

Remember TOS? NBC has already been down that road, too. Twice. Yet here we are.

[1701D]

Ok, I hold my hands up. I went too far. For that I apologise. Daysleeper and Nigel, guys I'm sorry.

What you should both know is that on the whole I do respect everyone's opinion but I do get frustrated when people aren't willing to be rational when it comes to commenting on Star Trek. It's silly when fans say that Abrams movies aren't real Star Trek or that they've judged this new series without seeing anything from it really but preferring to judge it on rumour and on a photo of a bunch of Klingons. That's really silly.

But look, again I apologise for going too far.

[Daysleeper]

Apology accepted.

[VulcanFanatic]

I won't be walking away from Star Trek at all. There is plenty of "Real" Star trek to watch, just wish we could get more "Real" Star Trek at some point, and I'm hopeful that Discovery will actually get back to the"cerebral" stories than the Star Wars like parodies that have been coming out since 2009. Enterprise, while my least favorite Star Trek show, was infinitely better than the Abramsverse crud.

[Nigel]

Ok, I hold my hands up. I went too far. For that I apologise. Daysleeper and Nigel, guys I'm sorry.

What you should both know is that on the whole I do respect everyone's opinion but I do get frustrated when people aren't willing to be rational when it comes to commenting on Star Trek. It's silly when fans say that Abrams movies aren't real Star Trek or that they've judged this new series without seeing anything from it really but preferring to judge it on rumour and on a photo of a bunch of Klingons. That's really silly.

But look, again I apologise for going too far.

 

1701D, as I have said before I do enjoy and like many of your posts (especially your thoughts on the DST lines). I have gone a bit too far on forums before, too. You are a "member of our crew" and as Kirk would say "we're stronger with you than without you." So, I accept your apology. Really the only things that upset me were the name calling and negativity (on a personal level, not about Star Trek). I am fine with other people loving the Abrams films and being enthusiastic about Discovery because the success of those things make it more possible for us to get more classic trek toys and merchandise for the people who still want that sort of thing. My brothers are both fans of the new films and they are cool with me not being so much into it because they know I tend to be into retro stuff. So, power to ya as we say here. May Discovery be a grand success (and maybe we'll get some DS9 blu-rays or a Defiant/Voyager from its popularity).

[Jay K]

[Gothneo]

You think GoT in space is a bad thing? A story told from multiple perspectives across different parts of the Trek universe would be fantastic. 

 

Personally, I can't stand game of thrones. Its all very pointless to me as any protagonist that's worth investing any emotional time in ultimately gets killed.

 

I've been re-watching some of ENT recently... Honestly some of the 1st seasons are pretty harsh IMO. Of course, I can come up with some criticism for just about  all the series, but ENT still ranks last in my list with respect to trek series.

 

We do know... in retrospect... that these projects have a good amount of chaos... so hopefully that's what this is... but boy! It doesn't sound promising. I think my biggest concern is the idea that CBS is  micromanaging it and fired Fuller.... I also agree with those that think TV Trek is better looking forward, not back... so it'll be interesting to see what they come up with... if anything at all. 

 

I was seriously considering purchasing the all access to be able to watch the show... but now... I dunno... I may just watch the pilot, and either go or not based on it.

[1701D]

I think with Discovery we're probably going to see more of a push on Discovery merchandise. Not saying that we won't see TOS/TNG stuff but as CBS owns Discovery and the merchandising outright (whereas with the movies they were split between cbs and Paramount), cbs are more likely to do what should have been done with the movies, and prioritise merchandise based on Discovery.

It's happened before, TNG was all anyone could find back in the 1990's until they began expanding into TOS lines later on.

[Nigel]

I don't doubt that we'll see Discovery merchandise at the forefront. If DST gives up the license and some other company comes along, though, they might just want to do a little bit of everything (like Hasbro does with Star Wars).

 

[Nigel]

I still hope that the picture of the "Klingons" turns out to be a different alien species. We already have different looking Klingons in the Abramsverse. If it is supposed to be the prime timeline then why not just make a slight modification to outfits like Enterprise did and keep the TNG look for the foreheads and hair. As for some of the casting, it looks good like JMW said. Can't say I really like the look of the Discovery starship. I will watch the premiere for sure. 

[Jay K]

"The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged." - One of the finest scenes from any TV series, ever.

People have opinions, and they have their own minds. This is an open forum, where all of us with very different opinions come to seek out something that we all love and share, Star Trek. Some of us like only some of it, while others like all of it, that's fine. How does it affect you personally if someone doesn't like what you like?

 

And also, so what if people are judging Discovery before it comes out (which to be clear, I haven't seen anyone do on these forums - perhaps there's confusion occurring due to browsing multiple Star Trek websites at the same time)? People like to voice their opinions in order to provoke discussion, which is the very point of a forum in the first place. No one should ever feel pressured not to give an opinion on something as trivial as a toy spaceship, or a TV series.

Finally, we are ALL Star Trek fans here as well. The very name - Trek Toy - supports that we're a particularly hardcore set of fans, as we not only watch the shows, but also collect the merchandise as well. But even so, I can't think of one single franchise - not even Star Trek, which I'll say right now I'd be lost without - that I love completely. Examples:

Star Trek: A large chunk of Voyager and Enterprise, and the JJ-verse.

 

Game of Thrones: Some scenes in season's 4 and 5 were either far too graphic (Karl Tanner's speech, specifically the background, or anything in Dorne from season 5).

 

Alien: Resurrection, and the standard version of Alien 3 (love the extended cut though).

 

Halo: Halo 4 and 5's aesthetic is something I can't stand, especially because Bungie's designs were so well thought out and gorgeous.

 

To reiterate what Daysleeper said in his big post, just because something carries the name of something I love, doesn't mean I'm going to like and give my support to it.

 

If it bothers you that someone doesn't like one aspect of something, or that they're upset that a model they've paid a lot of money for hasn't been put together as well as they'd expected, then I'd suggest going back to age 10, and living the next 7-8 years over again.
 

In short, other than personally insulting someone (which to be clear, discredits you instantly), let people be free to say what they like. if anything and at the very least, it'll allow you a better insight into their mind, and their way of thinking.

 

Now with that said and done, I'm going to go back to posting how I usually post. Ship pictures, general news, and updates on Discovery good or bad.